Authentication product question

Discussion:

(too old to reply)

Brian

2005-07-13 01:39:28 UTC

Apparently there is no updated version of WG coming. Color me naive.
Being helplessly ingrained in WG 3.3 with 2500+ users and 150K page loads
per month is there a product that would allow me to run 3rd party apps such
as IM and email servers authenticated against WG 3.3?
I believe there was one but I never paid much attention to it's capabilities
and now cant think of the name of it for the life of me.

Thanks
Brian
Scab.org

brad

2005-07-13 05:15:19 UTC

Permalink

Post by Brian
Apparently there is no updated version of WG coming. Color me naive.
Being helplessly ingrained in WG 3.3 with 2500+ users and 150K page loads
per month is there a product that would allow me to run 3rd party apps such
as IM and email servers authenticated against WG 3.3?
I believe there was one but I never paid much attention to it's capabilities
and now cant think of the name of it for the life of me.
Thanks
Brian
Scab.org

vircom's dma server....but i think that was only for 1.01?
(been awhile ..i kinda remember what you mean)

other option is run a linux box setup for the connect to the inet using
standard apps..and just make the wg 3.3 one of the ap's machines off such a
network

(of course realize i don't program and don't know what i'm talking about
here)

brad
former sysop lost-gonzo.com
(brian move to mankato, mn ..we could have a huge system...hehehe..sigh no
one wants to move to minnesota)

Questman

2005-07-13 15:50:32 UTC

Permalink

Hi Brian!

I do not recall an authentication product that allows auth against
Worldgroup's database, however, it would be relatively easy to write.

A few questions:

1. How would the Email/IM/etc servers want to "connect" - would they
prefer using a URL Connection, or a port connection with a proprietary
command script? Or something else?

2. What platforms would be calling WG to auth? Java? UNIX?

Let me know, and I can try to work on something for you for a reasonable
price.

Rick
Elwynor Technologies
http://www.elwynor.com/elwynor

Brian

2005-07-16 10:28:45 UTC

Permalink

Post by Questman

Hi Brian!
I do not recall an authentication product that allows auth against
Worldgroup's database, however, it would be relatively easy to write.
1. How would the Email/IM/etc servers want to "connect" - would they
prefer using a URL Connection, or a port connection with a proprietary
command script? Or something else?
2. What platforms would be calling WG to auth? Java? UNIX?
Let me know, and I can try to work on something for you for a reasonable
price.
Rick
Elwynor Technologies
http://www.elwynor.com/elwynor

The product I had in mind was radius which obviously is not what I thought
it was. Since posing this question I have done some more research and it
seems that what I need is an LDAP or active directory setup. The problem is
that it apparently will involve an awfull learning curve and most likely a
big dollar outlay as well. I have yet to find any "out of the box" type
product and what there is seems geared towards enterprise business
applications.

Anyway, what I thought was that I could set up an "Ldap", whatever that
might consist of and auth WG against it as I replace WG modules one by one
with aftermarket products keeping the sign up/login process centralized.
Based on what you are saying I wonder if I could retain the WG as the
"Ldap", Identity management, user database or whatever you want to call it.
The types of products I would want to auth against it would be email server,
forums, instant messenger, photo database, etc. Essentially I have a poor
man's portal in WG 3.3 but need to take it to the next level with some state
of the art features/software without spending enterprise type dollars.
I'm currently getting 150-200k page loads per month with 2500 users. I have
up to 30 users online at any given time with forums being the main draw
followed by email. Income is based on advertising.
I know that if I can update I can probably double those stats within a year.
It seems that all the login based web doodads I look at are moving towards
authenticating against either Ldap or AD standards. I have no idea what the
mechanics are behind that, could an interface be written to make WG act as a
poor man's overly simple user management system using ladap/AD standards?

Thanks
Brian at scab.org

Brian

2005-07-16 17:46:27 UTC

Permalink

As big a deal as Centralized Identity Management seems to be growing into
this could be a hell of a bundled product. WG core with an interface to
allow any ldap compliant software to auth against.

Questman

2005-07-16 17:47:51 UTC

Permalink

Post by Brian
The product I had in mind was radius which obviously is not what I thought
it was. Since posing this question I have done some more research and it
seems that what I need is an LDAP or active directory setup. The problem is
that it apparently will involve an awfull learning curve and most likely a
big dollar outlay as well. I have yet to find any "out of the box" type
product and what there is seems geared towards enterprise business
applications.

There aren't any out of the box products that do what you're looking
for, no, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible...

Post by Brian
Anyway, what I thought was that I could set up an "Ldap", whatever that
might consist of and auth WG against it as I replace WG modules one by one
with aftermarket products keeping the sign up/login process centralized.
Based on what you are saying I wonder if I could retain the WG as the
"Ldap", Identity management, user database or whatever you want to call it.
The types of products I would want to auth against it would be email server,
forums, instant messenger, photo database, etc. Essentially I have a poor
man's portal in WG 3.3 but need to take it to the next level with some state
of the art features/software without spending enterprise type dollars.
I'm currently getting 150-200k page loads per month with 2500 users. I have
up to 30 users online at any given time with forums being the main draw
followed by email. Income is based on advertising.
I know that if I can update I can probably double those stats within a year.
It seems that all the login based web doodads I look at are moving towards
authenticating against either Ldap or AD standards. I have no idea what the
mechanics are behind that, could an interface be written to make WG act as a
poor man's overly simple user management system using ladap/AD standards?

Yes, that's the current direction - LDAP - such as Oracle's OID (Oracle
Internet Directory), Microsoft's Active Directory, etc.

So what you're looking to do is - keep Worldgroup as your portal, and,
keep it's user database as the actual user database. You'd like to
expose an LDAP-compliant interface that uses Worldgroup as its source.

Since Worldgroup is not LDAP, it would involve writing something that
looks like LDAP, but actually isn't.

It can be done, yes. I'd have to do some investigation on how long it'd
take, but it's doable.

Rick

Brian

2005-07-16 18:02:49 UTC

Permalink

Post by Questman

There aren't any out of the box products that do what you're looking
for, no, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible...

Yes, that's the current direction - LDAP - such as Oracle's OID (Oracle
Internet Directory), Microsoft's Active Directory, etc.
So what you're looking to do is - keep Worldgroup as your portal, and,
keep it's user database as the actual user database. You'd like to
expose an LDAP-compliant interface that uses Worldgroup as its source.
Since Worldgroup is not LDAP, it would involve writing something that
looks like LDAP, but actually isn't.
It can be done, yes. I'd have to do some investigation on how long it'd
take, but it's doable.
Rick

Count me in

Brian

2005-07-18 05:46:09 UTC

Permalink

Let me know, I am definitely interested in paying for a product. I just
can't pay thousands of dollars for a product designed for a yahoo sized
company.

Post by Questman

There aren't any out of the box products that do what you're looking
for, no, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible...

Yes, that's the current direction - LDAP - such as Oracle's OID (Oracle
Internet Directory), Microsoft's Active Directory, etc.
So what you're looking to do is - keep Worldgroup as your portal, and,
keep it's user database as the actual user database. You'd like to
expose an LDAP-compliant interface that uses Worldgroup as its source.
Since Worldgroup is not LDAP, it would involve writing something that
looks like LDAP, but actually isn't.
It can be done, yes. I'd have to do some investigation on how long it'd
take, but it's doable.
Rick

n***@netvillage.com

2005-07-19 23:29:17 UTC

Permalink

One of the things we are working on in 4.0 is providing an ODBC driver to
reach into the user account database easy.

Questman

2005-07-20 19:46:29 UTC

Permalink

Post by n***@netvillage.com

One of the things we are working on in 4.0 is providing an ODBC driver to
reach into the user account database easy.

Nate,

That doesn't solve the problem for today's standards, unfortunately.

We can talk about this if you want to.

Rick

n***@netvillage.com

2005-07-19 23:29:16 UTC

Permalink

We have one (an IM that integrates into WG).
Also an updated verson of wg IS coming. Here's the latest of features
ALREADY in the 4.0 baseline (to be released in a few months)

http://www.gcomm.com/wgsmain.rln

Brian

2005-08-26 11:19:53 UTC

Permalink

Found a really nice product that pretty much replaces WG. It's
Surgemail/Dbabble from netwinsite.com
A bit of a learning curve as far as the html goes, at least for me but a
very nice product. Total cost for both products to cover up to 10,000 users
about $1100. Forums, web based email hotmail style, link forums to nntp, IM
compatible w/ ICQ/AIM/MSN/Yahoo, Sharable Calendars, single login for both
products, whose online, Chat rooms. Security and flexibility meets or
exceeds WG.
Couple that with a free copy of Apache2triad that comes with the latest PHP,
Mysql, AWstats, and a cheesy FTP server (admin only) and I can do ANYTHING
MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Some freebie php scripts cover Polls, surveys, and way more cool stuff. Add
a few hundred more pieces of gold for a world class Photo album and it's all
running happily on W2k Pro and a gig of Ram.

A few weeks of tweaking and I'll be retiring my wg 3.3. :)

Questman

2005-08-26 14:17:37 UTC

Permalink

There is also Dialsoft's new product - Webblaster -
http://www.webblaster.com/

It's a web-wg type product from an experienced WG ISV.

Rick

Post by Brian
Found a really nice product that pretty much replaces WG. It's
Surgemail/Dbabble from netwinsite.com
A bit of a learning curve as far as the html goes, at least for me but a
very nice product. Total cost for both products to cover up to 10,000 users
about $1100. Forums, web based email hotmail style, link forums to nntp, IM
compatible w/ ICQ/AIM/MSN/Yahoo, Sharable Calendars, single login for both
products, whose online, Chat rooms. Security and flexibility meets or
exceeds WG.
Couple that with a free copy of Apache2triad that comes with the latest PHP,
Mysql, AWstats, and a cheesy FTP server (admin only) and I can do ANYTHING
MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Some freebie php scripts cover Polls, surveys, and way more cool stuff. Add
a few hundred more pieces of gold for a world class Photo album and it's all
running happily on W2k Pro and a gig of Ram.
A few weeks of tweaking and I'll be retiring my wg 3.3. :)

such

Post by Brian
as IM and email servers authenticated against WG 3.3?
I believe there was one but I never paid much attention to it's

capabilities

Post by Brian
and now cant think of the name of it for the life of me.
Thanks
Brian
Scab.org

Brian

2005-08-27 20:11:07 UTC

Permalink

Not done tweaking yet but check this out http://scab.org:8132 &
http://scab.org:7080 same uid/pw.

Post by Questman
There is also Dialsoft's new product - Webblaster -
http://www.webblaster.com/
It's a web-wg type product from an experienced WG ISV.
Rick

such

Post by Brian
as IM and email servers authenticated against WG 3.3?
I believe there was one but I never paid much attention to it's

capabilities

Post by Brian
and now cant think of the name of it for the life of me.
Thanks
Brian
Scab.org

Joe Cronin

2006-03-13 11:07:14 UTC

Permalink

Vircomm wrote a radius product for wg 3.x. I have the demo and it allows one
radius client in demo mode. Most mail servers have a auth against radius. We
bought the radius server and used it for dialup and web/mail auth. Worked
good.

Joe